Listen To Episode #339 of the Get Clients Now podcast:
Jeff Altman, the Workplace Wonderkid and Host of the No BS Job Search Advice Radio Reveals Why He’s The Most In-Demand Coach for Individuals and Organizations Looking To Hire Top Talent.
If you want to hire top talent consistently, you need to be aware of the massive technological and economic shifts. Shifts that have dramatically impacted the job landscape over the past several years.
Not many things look the same as they did a few decades ago, and there is intense competition among organizations to draw in top talent, especially among the Millennial crowd.
Jeff Altman shows you how to stay competitive by shifting your focus in hiring top talent to employee engagement to draw in skilled workers and increase retention.
Ken Newhouse (00:00:02):
Today is episode number #339 and they get clients now podcast and my guest today is the big game Hunter, Jeff Altman. Jeff is considered one of the leading coaches for employers who hire top talent. People earning high five, six and seven figures. Altman is also one of the leading coaches for high five, six and seven figure job candidates looking to land that dream job.
Ken Newhouse (00:00:52):
As our audience continues to grow we’re getting more questions from the members that get clients. I’m speaking specifically about our fans and subscribers over the last six to eight months. We’ve had a growing number of requests of people asking us to talk about the hiring process.
I talk about it from the perspective of a small business owner and/or professional who want to hire top talent, right?
So on today’s episode, Jeff’s actually going to review several of the hiring strategies that he typically reserves for private clients. If you’re a high-level professional who’s looking for powerful strategies to land that dream job, this is awesome for you.
Everybody knows that hiring the right team member or members is critical to the success and profitability of your business. Vital to the success of your brand, especially if you’re about to or you’re in the process of scaling your business.
Gary Vaynerchuk was recently interviewed by Eric Braun. Eric is the chief operating officer of WeGrow. That’s a company that’s owned by we work, but here’s what they both have to say about the importance of hiring the right type of employee for your business. The critical importance of the hiring process and getting the right person to support you so your business can grow and remain profitable.
Gary Vaynerchuk (00:01:50):
You need to hire top talent. Like you need to find somebody who just loves Excel and loves being in her calendar and freaks out when you’re a minute late and like you need cross your T’s and dot your eyes. I’m sitting with Adam and asking him about details of mission you right now with you because I don’t do that. You need to hire people that do do that because you’re just hiring homeys or people that look the part of you. But that’s not what you need. If you’re the quarterback, you need the higher offensive linemen, they different.
Adam Braun (00:02:14):
Okay. Yeah. I mean the, the other thing I would say is, you know, the start of my career, I was probably very much the way that you were. I was the person who needed to do everything myself cause I believe that can do it better than anybody else on my team. Then I spent three years at Bane Capitol, which is arguably the top kind of culture in the world if you want to hire top talent.
And what I saw there was, uh, that they spent an insane amount of time training people below them to do the job that they’re doing today so they can focus on the next higher level issue. My biggest piece of advice to you is you should look at how you’re spending your time and it might feel really strange and really awkward, but you should actually delegate, let’s say in the next two weeks.
Oh, maybe all the time. Maybe it’s two weeks. Sure. Teaching the people that you are delegating to, to do all of your exact responsibilities, literally to the point where they can do it as well, if not better than you can. Doing that will free up your time because end they delegation is a matter of trust. Right now, you’re not trusting these people and that’s as you have invested in them to hire top talent.
Gary Vaynerchuk (00:03:00):
…because they’re losers.
Ken Newhouse (00:03:02):
Everybody who listens to this show knows that week-in and week-out we deliver high level methods to get clients now and keep them coming. Winning strategies delivered by me and from the world-class guests and experts that I have on the show.
And suffice it to say, well, I can literally give you a million dollar methods to get clients now. You end up hiring the wrong person and none of that’s gonna matter because you’re going to end up losing. Losing tons of money, or your ability to sustain growth is going to be damaged or completely eliminated.
So that’s what we’re gonna actually talk about with Jeff on today’s show (i.e, “how to hire top talent”). And then on our next show, which is episode #340 that’s the show that’s coming up on Monday … and I’m going to be interviewing Dr. Mike Neal and hiring system.
He’s created build my team. But getting back to today’s episode, I wanted to actually start this mini series off with Jeff. I’m doing that because he is the most experienced, most qualified, most in demand thought leader on the subject. The subject about how to attract, find and hire top talent … how to hire the perfect team member for your business or your brand the first time around.
Ken Newhouse (00:03:47):
Listen to anyone who’s been in business for any length of time, knows that bad hires or one of the largest expenses your business can account and they also know that it’s among the most avoidable. Everybody knows that building a better hiring system can help you reduce the cost of hiring and certainly without question, it can improve your bottom line and do it dramatically. And again, that is exactly why I’ve invited Jeff onto the show. So let’s do this. Let’s go and run through Jeff’s bio and then once I’ve done that, we’re going to go and welcome him onto the show.
Former executive recruiter, Jeff Altman (The big game Hunter) is a coach who helps people and organizations around workplace related issues, job search, hiring more effectively, managing and leading career development, workplace related issues, and executive coaching. Albany is a member of the Forbes coaches council, a group of top coaches throughout the world. He has the number one show on Apple podcasts for job search. And the title of that show was No BS job search advice radio. By the way, I’ve listened to several episodes Jeff has on that podcast. It’s a great show. And he’s also the host of a top 10 YouTube channel in that category, which you can find at Job Search TV.
All right, let’s go ahead, welcome Jeff. And on the show everybody, this is Ken Newhouse and I want to welcome you to get clients now podcast. And with me, I’ve got my good friend, uh, the big game Hunter.
Jeff Altman (00:04:54):
Ken Newhouse (00:04:55):
that’d be Mr. Jeff Altman. Jeff. So on behalf of myself and the members, I get clients on nation. I’m gonna welcome him on the show. Hi Jeff, how are you doing today?
Jeff Altman (00:05:01):
I’m feeling brave. Thank you. Gorgeous. They were. I am, I hope the same is true of you too.
Ken Newhouse (00:05:04):
Uh, it’s actually mid thirties and snow. Um, but it’s starting to, you know, I looked on my iPhone this morning and it’s definitely gonna be warming up. So I will say this, we live, you know, I live just West of st Louis, kind of, I won’t say in the country country cause it’s like a state homes, but it’s, you know, everybody’s spread out, you know, six to 10 acres. But, um, it’s, we haven’t had any snow this year really to speak of. And I remember growing up that we had a lot of snow here. The winters have been cold, so I don’t think it’s due to, uh, global warming. But, um, I think we just haven’t had as much snow lately because it was relatively easy winter to get through this year.
Jeff Altman (00:05:36):
Has, it has, it has been for me. I’m in Western North Carolina and the fact of the matter is we hardly ever get snow by comparison to where I lived in New York. What they consider snow that makes people run to the store to buy the ingredients for French toast. They don’t milk bread and eggs, you know, it’s like there would be dust.
Ken Newhouse (00:05:52):
Okay, so you’re in, you’re in web, did you say Western? North Carolina. Okay. So next week think it’s on the fifth the beautiful and talented Lisa and I are going to hop in the car. We were going to fly, but I want to, I want to drive and stop it some places along the way through Tennessee. But we’re gonna go to pigeon forge and stay up in the mountains for two weeks. I have been on vacation up in the mountains and this time I will say I’m not taking my horses normally when I go to Tennessee or ride the Appalachian trail. And for those of you guys who don’t know, that’s a trailer that separates, it’s like the, it’s like the state property line between parts of Tennessee and part of North Carolina.
So Jeff, how far away from pigeon forge are you a couple of hours?
Jeff Altman (00:06:23):
It’s a couple of hours away. And one of the fun things about that divide that you’re talking about is on my side, it’s called the blue Ridge on the Tennessee side. It’s the Smoky’s. Yeah.
Ken Newhouse (00:06:32):
Yeah. But it is beautiful. Is it not gorgeous? It’s stunning. Yeah. It’s nothing. So anyway, I’m gonna do some hiking and things like that. Uh, Lisa’s not into, uh, into the horse thing. Like I am, you know, I can go ride 20 or 30 miles in a day and I’m, I’m stoked on that or even ride my bike. But, uh, anyway, we’re gonna have a good time. I’ll do a lot of fishing. I haven’t been fishing in awhile and it’s, most of you guys know I love to fish. But anyway, let’s dive into the interview, Jeff. Again, thanks for doing the show. I’m really excited about the, uh, the, uh, the topic we’re going to talk about today because I know it’s a source of great consternation for a lot of business owners. In fact, I just had Dr. Mike on, I actually interviewed him before I interviewed you, but I’m gonna play his show right after yours because they almost work together.
Ken Newhouse (00:07:04):
Dr Mike created a hiring system, that’s all. Um, it’s all digital. It’s all based in the cloud, so to speak. And I created a hiring system many years ago to help myself be able to hire more qualified people. But I want to get your thoughts on it because you certainly are are the pro on this, but let’s do this just so people can get an idea of who you are and where you’ve come from and your qualifications.
And you know, guys, I’ll tell you now. As you know, I only have guests on the show that are like elite experts at what they do are very, very successful business people. And Jeff’s been around the block for a couple thousand times now and I’ve been doing this awhile and I would say that he’s certainly one of the leading experts in the world on this topic. So I’m very, very pleased and very thankful that he took the time out of schedule to do it.
So Jeff, if you could take a minute or two, give us a little bit of a backstory about kind of where he started in this whole process of doing what you do now and how you become a leading expert in the field of helping people hire top talent.
First of all, tell us what it is that you do and then give us that backstory and then bring us kinda up to where you are now, don’t you doing
Jeff Altman (00:07:50):
so mine is Jeff Alban. I’m an ex new Yorker who now lives in Asheville, North Carolina near the Biltmore stick. And I now coach people in organizations in a variety of ways. And with people, often it’s about job search and it’s also about hiring more effectively, managing and leading. And it’s big company folks. It’s small company. And when I talk about small business or mid sized business, I like to work with owners. And in doing that, I always say I work with self employed people who have a lunatic for a boss because frankly most of you in one way or another, if you don’t believe me, you ask your wife, husband or partner about this. You guys are nuts at times and you know the mania that you have to live with to be effective has an impact in your office. It has an impact in your homes and everyone gets used to it after a while, right?
Jeff Altman (00:08:35):
The world revolves around you. You’re the sun, the moon and the stars and it’s okay. You’ve earned that privilege. Now for myself, I didn’t work in executive search for more than 40 years, filled more than 1200 full time positions plus consulting assignments around the United States. And in doing that, I spend time understanding how my clients hire, what went into the process, how they did it well, how they did it wrong. And frankly, what I learned right off the bat was most people are amateurs about hiring. They think they know what to do, but the statistics prove out that they don’t.
And I say that because the statistics basically say, and there are different ones on the subject, I’m going to give you a range of numbers here. The best numbers I say are that 40% of the time you have buyer’s remorse within 18 months of hiring someone.
Jeff Altman (00:09:24):
That’s the best of them. 40% of the time it’s a failure with 18 months for a statistic I say there’s a little over 60% so people think they know what they’re doing, but how many times if you grumbled about that person in your office has been on board for two weeks and just isn’t doing what they said they were going to do.
Happens all the time. So what I do in my work now is on multiple fronts. I work with individuals to help them find work. I helped with organizations to help them improve their operations from a hiring perspective and their management and leadership. And again, back to that theme of for businesses like yours, I may be working with that self employed person who is a little nuts, shall we say and have them have a sounding board to sort things out with.
So it’s not just simply you who’s trying to figure things out as soon as good as you are and watch you do. This is a blind spot that many owners have.
Ken Newhouse (00:10:15):
Yeah. The forte that I had when I was in practice, uh, Jeff and we talked about dis, you know, Jeff actually has already done another show with me. We’re going to air that show after this one, a couple of shows down the road, but it was based on, uh, quite a few emails that I got from people who, because of the fact the economy is doing so well for virtually everyone, some people who had been in employment and then tried the entrepreneurial gig maybe weren’t making quite as much money.
Maybe they’re having success but weren’t making quite as much money or maybe it’s just too much stress for them to handle or they just realize that they wanted the security of having a job.
Well, I went ahead and did a show. I did a show with Jeff on that topic and I did a show with another gal on that topic sometime back and it got really good response.
Ken Newhouse (00:10:49):
So I wanted to, I reached out to Jeff and that was the original contact that we had, but Jeff, I remember I was great at marketing. I mean, I had that nailed down. But one thing that I had a problem with was turnover with employees in my office. And I realized, Hey, every time I get a particular practice and I had six locations, every time I get one of these locations, like the new ones up and running and really get some momentum and then I lose a key employee, any employee for that matter, it would literally slam the brakes on the growth of the business and create all kinds of internal turmoil and stress and everything else and take us off the focus of growth and serving our patients and growing at the same time to Hey, we’re scrambling to find someone who can actually do the job.
Ken Newhouse (00:11:22):
Right. Somebody who’s not causing problems in the office, someone who’s qualified, someone who doesn’t have to, you know, leave.
Right. Exactly. You know, five 30 because you know, they’ve got to go pick up their kids or whatever. We know we have to have some flexibility and so all those things I learned over time. But let’s do this one more question before we kinda dive into these.
Cause I have a lot of questions and I know you got a lot of great content for us. Was there an individual, and again this is a question that I ask every guest.
The first two questions is, is there an individual or a circumstance, a situation that kind of took you from where you were in the corporate world as a, as a recruiter, if I’m saying that right to the point of now helping so many people, not only find, but more importantly in related today’s topic, helping business owner save tons of time, money and effort by teaching them the steps to hire the right, the most qualified people for their business.
Jeff Altman (00:12:02):
I think it’s not one person, although in the other interview I may have pointed to it, but when you reflect a little bit, suddenly you discover how crazy the hiring process is. It is, it’s like a bad blind date. And in a blind date what happened?
Ken Newhouse (00:12:16):
And he doesn’t mean he doesn’t mean a person who’s blind. He means a person. Cause some people might not remember what a blind date is. Um, I mean we have, we have dating on the internet now.
Jeff Altman (00:12:23):
It’s someone who didn’t sign up to meet who you’re introduced to and you’re told, I’m going to meet you at such and such restaurant or such and such bar or coffee shop. And I’ll be the one wearing the one my blind and I’ll be seated over here and just come over to me and we’ll sit down and talk.
So, speaking of how to hire top talent, in this kind of a date, let’s say there’s a setup to this and the result winds up being the setup person says, I’ll introduce the two of you who are eight and now you have to sit down and talk to someone.
And the setup person has texted the set on working light. One of the two of you get acquainted. It’s really the contri format. Now here’s the biggest problem with interviewing is I see.
And that is most of you think you can assess for fit.
Jeff Altman (00:13:04):
This person can fit into my office like a cloth. Oh, they’re great. And you can’t. And this was the realization I had when I was doing search and teaching people how to hire top talent.
And that is, it didn’t take me long to figure out the job. Hunters are on good behavior when they interfere with the company.
Know I think we will know that, but it tells me a while to figure out that my clients were also on good behavior. My institutional clients were on good behavior, and one day it hit me like a ton of bricks when I realized that no one had ever said to me, you know, Jeff, I’ve got a lot of problems and you know, I’ve lost three people in the last six months, all of this same job and I’m up to my eyeballs at this point and I need to hire someone to save my derriere.
No one ever says that. Instead, they’ve got this great smile button face on. They’re happy. They talk about a great team of people were kind of like family around here, my family and the Christmas movies, you know?
Ken Newhouse (00:14:00):
Yeah. Like Archie, Archie bunker. Yeah. Archie, you know, whatever. That’s all in the families.
Jeff Altman (00:14:03):
Yeah. Well, I think in terms of the holiday movies where they’re throwing things at one another and they’re arguing like now politicians during the debate through, and I’ll just simply say that once I realized that I understood how broken the interview process was, that everyone is on a script and how important it is for you as an employer if you want to consistently hire top talent.
They get off that traditional script of interviewing you told me about yourself and what you’ve been doing professionally and yet to the real person get to the human being because that’s usually where it’s breaking down more than that and he’s like, you have an expectation that this person could do the job and you’re probably pretty good at evaluating for that, but it’s breaking down in two basic ways.
You think you can mind read a person who’s shall we say trying to convince you. Convince the first three letters con you went to hiring them and you’re trying to do the same thing with them.
Jeff Altman (00:14:57):
No disrespect as intended, but that’s what we’re, it breaks down that fundamental belief that each of you can read the other and know what it’s going to be like working together.
So it’s about getting off the script because otherwise hiring is little better than a coin toss. Like if you figure out that math, I just, I gave earlier about how the statistics show that hiring is broken at best, it’s 40%. That could be 60%.
Flip a coin, that’s 50%. That’s better than some of you are doing now. So you might as well see the person walking in flip the coin. But we don’t want to do that.
We want to get better at this.
Ken Newhouse (00:15:30):
Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, one of the, one of the stats that I read, Jeff, in preparation for this show is that it had a range, and this was from the us department of labor and statistics. You know, the government, which obviously means it must be true. Um, but they said that you lose, on average, employers lose on average, a minimum of 30% of the annual salary. So let’s say you’re gonna pay somebody 50 grand to work for you, you’re going to lose a minimum of 15,000 as a, for that person, even if they don’t work a year, if they’re a bad hire and you have to replace them all the way up to in some businesses, $240,000 I saw was a high end average of how much you lose hiring the wrong person.
And so it’s not just the money you pay them, it’s not just the money that you have to repay or pay, again, invest again into the retraining or a of a, of a new hire which is why you want to hire top talent.
It’s all the lost opportunity. And that was the thing for me, the lost opportunity.
And so if you could speak to that and speak, let’s, let’s kind of dive into this. And as you’re the, um, you know, obviously you’re the expert in this, in this field. Where do you want to start the interview? And then I’m gonna ask my questions as we go through it.
Jeff Altman (00:16:21):
And what you’re speaking to is employee retention with that number. And that’s really an issue of engagement. How do you engage people in your workplace?
And the statistics come out on that one is the United States has best employee engagements that has sticks some more. We’re up to 35% of employees are engaged, which means the other 65% are at best ambivalent. But at worst they’re doing things that actively undermine what you’re trying to do.
Ken Newhouse (00:16:49):
Yeah. Let me give you just a quick story and I’m gonna let you run with that. There were a couple of different examples where I wanted to learn how to hire top talent and I was working in a, in a dental office and yes, I worked with a lot of dentists. I work with a lot of chiropractors.
I work with some medical doctors. And then I worked with a lot of consultants. But I remember one case in particular where the office manager looked at me and she said, wait a minute, if, if we’re going to be getting busier, I’m going to get paid more money. And they were already in this very highly qualified dentist and the office had a couple of associates, very really nice location. Um, the staff, other than the, uh, negative Nancy staff, uh, office manager all seemed to be on board with things. But the office manager, I felt like she was going to put the kibosh.
Ken Newhouse (00:17:25):
And in fact she did. She put the brakes on, she threw the wrench into the system. So as they started to get busier, she became irritated because she felt like she was, uh, owed more money.
And then I know that there was another instance, I’ll just say very quickly where one of the people that work at the desk, this was not an assistant or hygienist, but one of the admin people in the office, and I think this was in a chiropractor’s office, but she was irritated when I actually said to her,
Hey, listen, there’s work to be done. We’re, we’re, we’re doing these things. And she mad because I made it put our smart phone down because she was, um, on social media. She was on Facebook.
Cause I think at the time, Instagram wasn’t even in existence, but she was mad because she was, you know, going back and forth on Facebook messenger or doing something on Facebook.
Ken Newhouse (00:17:59):
And she thought that was um, unreal. How rude of me to expect her while she’s on the clock being paid. This wasn’t her lunch break, this wasn’t a break. This was during work time. And my whole thing is, you know, you hire the wrong people. They’re stealing money from you if they’re not, if they’re not, like Jeff said, engaged. If they’re not working while you’re paying them by, by their choice, that’s stealing money from you, that’s stealing money off the table, that’s stealing money from your family. It’s stealing food off the table from your kids. And so I just wanted to throw those two because those really have always stuck in my mind.
And I use those as examples of how to hire top talent and of just how bad this can be when you hire the wrong person and getting the right person the first time through is so critically important to the success and profitability of your business.
Jeff Altman (00:18:35):
If you want to hire top talent, I couldn’t agree more. Fundamentally, you want a hundred people who care. They’ll never care as much as you do more should they? They are an employee. You have the responsibility for the bottom line. It’s your family that’s risking efforts. Got it. But you can expect them to care about doing the job and not sit there as though they’re zombies, a desk.
Ken Newhouse (00:18:58):
It doesn’t, it doesn’t that goes to their character as a person. This is the problem when you can’t hire top talent.
Jeff Altman (00:19:01):
Yes. But in an interview, they obviously got by you and that’s the issue. You know, you ask certain questions that are designed to identify skills often, and I’m not speaking about you, but often what happens is expectations aren’t laid out for people before they’re hiring.
Ken Newhouse (00:19:17):
So let’s walk through the process. Let’s walk through the process and you walk us through the process of how this should go in a condensed version.
Obviously we, I mean this is would take to do this, right? You would need more than 30 minutes on a podcast to do, but at least you can give us a reference point, give information so people know that they can hire top talent ant that you’re the right person to hire to help them with this or not. And let’s walk through that. So go ahead and run with it.
Jeff Altman (00:19:35):
So I want to start off with the idea that you have work to do before you started. If you want people. And the first thing is to identify what it is this person needs to know, what skills they need to possess in order to be qualified, right.
That’s a pretty obvious thing, but the next question becomes how do you evaluate for them?
Now, sometimes in offices, and I don’t presume to know every office that is going to be represented as listeners tonight, it’s the owner who’s doing so they can develop the measuring sticks for, had to evaluate for those skills, but often it’s an, it’s an office manager who’s evaluating an admin and they flip from question to question based upon whim and thus bias has a way of creeping into the process because based upon one answer, they come up with another question.
If you’re a guy that want to hire top talent, there’s no standards to her. She want to come up with the foundational questions for evaluating for the knowledge you need someone to have.
Let’s put it, that should be pretty obvious, but you know, folks, be honest with yourselves. How often do you win it, right? How often do you hire top talent? Yeah. Hey, we want you to talk to what admin at two 30 can you do that? Sure.
Ken Newhouse (00:20:40):
I think, I think that’s probably one of the reasons Jeff, you know your question is a rhetorical question. The fact that it’s becoming increasingly difficult to hire top talent and the fact that so many new hires fail, I think answers your question, are people being organized and disciplined about this and writing down the qualifications they want people to have prior and and walking, you know, working through a systematic process through the interview process.
Jeff Altman (00:20:58):
Agreed. And with that, I always think of the classic job description. Now I work with a lot of big companies on their hiring process and job hunters interviewing there as well. And I tell job hunters and most job descriptions are about 80% accurate because no one takes the time to write them.
And if they do hire top talent, they never take the time to update them. Over the course of talking to folks, if you happen to have a job description, fabulous, you’re ahead of the game. But before you start working off their job description, take a moment and think, how has the job really evolved over the last two years?
For example, if you have an administrative person and you’re thinking of them doing business development work that bring people into the practice as well, well why don’t you lay out some of the criteria in the job description, so sometimes someone who isn’t blindsided with that during the interview.
Another example regarding how to hire top talent … three years ago, you might not have had a social media component to your selling.
Jeff Altman (00:21:48):
It’s part of the marketing that everyone does these days when the want to hire top talent. That job description may not talk about the fact that you want them on Instagram or on IgE TV, Instagram, TV, YouTube, or on any of the other social media platforms, putting stuff out, promoting, boosting at Thompson, Facebook, a whole host of things. In order to sell business, he got to update this. Squishy surprises are never good for the employee and worse than that, it’s taking away from revenue producing stuff to interview someone who you’re never going to hire because they don’t know how to do this stuff.
If you want to hire top talent, make it easy for people to know what the expectations of job. Right. Why would you do that?
And then when you’re evaluating people afterwards, well some things are going to be more important than all those to you.
So for example, if you want to hire top talent, you may want that front office person to have a certain presence in bearings in them, right? But that’s going to be less important than that.
They can handle a schedule for someone or know some someone has a scheduling program or you know, nuances to the job that become more important than that quote unquote presence at the front desk.
So, when I’m teaching a client the best strategies to hire top talent, I always remind them, get a weighted scale in there.
In your mind for which of these things is more important to you than others because the perfect individual has yet to walk in the door of your offices.
Why would you expect it to happen now? Right.
Ken Newhouse (00:23:01):
So Jeff, let me ask you just to throw a question in and then bring something to my mind. So let’s say that you have, you mentioned like a software program or something.
And so when you’re looking to hire top talent, is there a certain strategy to approaching someone?
Let’s say you got a, you know, a certain type of software this person’s ever been exposed to. Are there any types of questions or qualifying questions or test that you could give to see if this person has the mental capacity to pick something like that up and learn it and then run with it?
Is is that part of the strategy if you want to hire top talent?
Jeff Altman (00:23:25):
Well, one of the things you might might say to them is if you notice on a resume that they don’t have the software, you can say take a look at the YouTube videos about it before they walk in the door.
Let’s see if they’d actually gone to YouTube to take a look at it. What they know. I know my son is now working in a dental office now. He’s 19 and it’s his first. I can say first real job, but it’s just first job as an employee.
That dental, so no experience there and he’s been hired. He’s going to have to learn a piece of dental software, use a digital native. It should be easy for him to pick up.
What does he do? He goes to YouTube, he watches the videos, walks in, and the dentist basically tells him, we’re going to have to be trained on this, on the software, and he goes, I’ve already watched some of the videos on YouTube about it.
Jeff Altman (00:24:06):
It doesn’t make me an expert, but I have some ideas of the concepts about what is similar to the word, not before and it doesn’t that person show degree of hunger and ambition to you.
Absolutely. Just because they went onto YouTube. How tough was that, especially since you told them, why don’t you take a look at the software on YouTube and see what you can pick up about it beforehand. If they don’t do it, don’t care. Right?
Absolutely. They’re expecting to learn everything on your dime, and I always remind people that, you know, when you’re hire, it’s an expensive proposition to bring someone on board and you’d want to make decisions about them pretty quickly as to whether or not you should invest more time with them because the person who in the first two weeks isn’t the same person who sat opposite you during the interview and everyone knows what I’m talking about.
Jeff Altman (00:24:53):
They’ve all had that experience where this bright, smart person starts working and suddenly they become an imbecile. How did this happen? You got to fire faster because that person who was on good behavior on the interview and walks in the door and starts working for you and suddenly isn’t that same person, they’re not going to get any better. This is them at their best where they’re trying to put on a good impression. You got to get rid of them faster and you might just talk with them first about what your expectations were. Again, just as a reminder, if it’s bothering you, what they’re doing, no reason for this to fester, just remind them about some of your expectations.
Ken Newhouse (00:25:30):
What about, what about deploying? Like, uh, in your hiring process when you talk to a new hire or potential new hires, Hey, listen to this, we’re gonna hire you on a trial basis. Make sure you’re a good fit for us and we’re a good fit for you. And then at the end of 30, 60, 90, whatever it is, or maybe it’s multiple, multiple points along the way, is that, to me, that’s one of the things I did. Um, because I did have a couple instances where I let people go and I, I, I’m not afraid to fire someone. I just personally don’t like it because I know what that means to that person. I never had a problem emotionally, psychologically firing someone who was just a bare elect or I thought he was dishonest, but I got no room for that or no tolerance for that at all.
Ken Newhouse (00:26:02):
But if someone who is really trying, they just couldn’t do the job, man, my heart went out to those people and I did whatever I could to try to try to keep them and try to make it work even in my own hurts sometimes. And that’s one of the reasons, like I told you before, I’ve told you that many times, I hate babysitting adults and that’s why I outsource virtually everything I do now because I want to hand it off to somebody and know what’s going to get done. But everybody can’t do that. If you own a private practice, a small business, your business probably demands that you have staff people. And as a result, you can’t just outsource like I’m doing. And so, um, these are really important questions, really important processes. So Jeff,
Jeff Altman (00:26:33):
well, the last situation that you just described is it really lays out my case. So number one is if I’m an employee of another firm and someone says in 101 a 30 day trial, I’m never quitting my job because you don’t trust me enough to hire me and make a commitment to me. So I’m never going to quit my job for trial. So you’ve already eliminated a certain population of people because they don’t want to take the risk and understandably because Hey look, they don’t know what they’re walking into. Remember you are on good behavior with them. You can be an absolute maniac.
Ken Newhouse (00:27:02):
Well, it wasn’t, let me, let me rephrase just real quick. You do bring up a really good point. I wasn’t implying to them, Hey, I’m going to check you out for 30 days and if you make it, you make, if you don’t, you don’t. I met like at the end of 30 days, we’re gonna evaluate your progress and obviously if they’re just a miserable failure and there’s no recovery them, you’ve got to get rid of them quickly like you said. But that way we can kind of reset and help them get focused on, Hey listen, this is what I’m really looking for, your great and these points, but I’d like to see a strengthen up or work on these points. That’s what I meant by the evaluation process. Not saying this is a probationary and if I use that vernacular or those words, I misspoke. That sounds like a politician. I don’t want them. I’ve been watching the news too much here lately. But anyway, that’s, that’s what I meant by, I know some people do say, Hey listen, we’re going to hire you on a trial basis for 30 days. So go ahead and continue with that vein.
Jeff Altman (00:27:41):
And my thought is it suggest to you on certainty about the higher, and thus to me what it encourages, I would encourage some to do is find a better way to decide. And thus if you’re not sure, this is not the person you should choose. So to me, the fact that you’re going to do a 30 day trial and then a probation, but I’m not going to check things out with one another. No harm, no foul. If you decide, each of you decides, you know, it’s a Parker company at the end of 30 days, that’s fair. But understand that the message that you’re admitting to the person about not really being sure about them, and that does suggest a better way of interviewing. And to me, I go back to that first thing I said about getting off the script. So most people start off the conversation with tell me about yourself and what you’ve been doing professionally or walk me through your background.
Jeff Altman (00:28:28):
How should we start? How should we start now? There’s a couple of different ways to do it and I’ve got like five questions I like to think I’m sure. One is, how did you wind up being here today? Like if you walked me through your life progression, what brought you to the point where you’re in my office today? Now I learned this question on a podcast. I don’t remember whose it was, but it’s a wonderful question because I’ll give you an example from the show. We have the first African American systems administration leader at Twitter, and if you know about software, it’s unusual for an African American to rise to this level and his promises and organizations. That’s where, and thus if he just said, tell me about yourself and what you’ve been doing. Well, you would miss the part of his background where he lived in an area of Los Angeles where you had to ride the bus to school for two hours each way in a gang or gang territory.
Jeff Altman (00:29:19):
And at times everyone on the bus would bend over to ensure that they were less good, worse copies shot, and that he went to a school and someone spotted him as having an aptitude for technology work. You miss all the texture of the man’s background and never here. So to me, asking a question about their history, what is the degree of humanity? The conversation that normally doesn’t accept. It also helps each of you connect with one another as human beings. Just to me, you know how to evaluate for the skills. You don’t need help with that, right? What is, what you’re trying to do is find someone who, excuse my language, gives a damn, and that there’s something about them where there’s a spark of life to them still because I don’t want you hiring people who are dead from the makeup. Those people, you’re going to have to invest so much time and effort into. You’re going to do more work than you want to managing them,
Ken Newhouse (00:30:11):
which takes away from your ability to run and grow your business and focus on the things the highest and best use of your time is no longer the highest and best use of your time. It’s now focused on trying to repair a broken employee that you should have never hired in the first place.
Jeff Altman (00:30:24):
And thus it takes you away from the good employees because the bad ones get all the attention. You’re spending so much shrines on a ton for to fix them. You don’t have any attention to the positive ones and they resent it and they resent you and they feel unappreciated. And then they start to wander. It’s like the spouse who doesn’t get attention from their wife or husband, they suddenly start to think about someplace else where they can get appreciated. And there’s always a recruiter out there trying to find them. And there’s always some online posting where someone’s wanting to pay them more than you. So the idea is how do you connect with people as people? And it starts off with understanding their background. Now I, from there I go to a second question that really is a big time saver. What’s most important to you in the next job or organization? What will you need to see or hear to believe more good choice for you? Because if they sell, say something to you that you can’t provide, why not just at the end of you there, why are you going to try and persuade them that, Hey, we know we’re not going to give you insurance but we’ve got this great job doing the exact same work for us that you’re doing for someone else now.
Ken Newhouse (00:31:33):
Well you have great insurance
Jeff Altman (00:31:34):
pretty, you have great insurance. Why put them, put yourself in them through this torture cause that is what you’re doing. You’re wasting your time, you’re wasting your breath and your energy. Just bring it to an end. So these two questions together, maybe it’s 10 minutes in total.
Ken Newhouse (00:31:50):
So what’s just real quick, I don’t wanna interrupt your flow, but just, I’m going to throw this question in cause it’s, it’s eating away at me. How do you end an interview when you just know that it’s not right? This person is not a good fit. Not that they’re, you know, a dirt bag or a loser, but it’s just not right. How do you do just like slammed your stuff on the table and say, okay, we’re done. You suck. You’re not qualified. I’m just kidding. But you know what I’m saying? How do you, what’s the, what’s the best way to do that?
Jeff Altman (00:32:07):
Well, any example of, you know, the question I just gave, it’s as simple as we don’t do that here. We do it differently and I respect her wishes, but we’re not the right place for you. And I don’t want to try and persuasion to the contrary. So I’m sorry this was a waste of your time. In other words, you fall on your sword. You take the blame on yourself and let them grow. I don’t want to, I don’t want to waste your time anymore knowing that we’re not going to give you what you really want and to bring it to a polite end because at least in this way, no one’s going to sit there and going, you know, cause these days of course if you do something weird and weird as an aircraft far the way social media is out there and can affect your practice.
Ken Newhouse (00:32:47):
Yeah. Well your business. Yeah, absolutely.
Jeff Altman (00:32:48):
So you don’t want to be in a situation where you’re being abrupt with people. You’re being rude. You want to be human.
Ken Newhouse (00:32:55):
Let me ask you another question and I, this is, I promise was my last, but this just popped up in my head. Um, cause I know people are gonna want to yell at me if I don’t ask it. Can you, is it legal to video the interview process? And the reason I asked that is because you brought up a good point. I haven’t seen it in this context where people can defame your character based on an interview where they didn’t get the job. But I have seen employees who got fired, turn around and go back and try to defame and you know, hurt the name and the reputation of their employer when they were justifiably let go for theft or dishonesty or just not doing a good, you know, not being engaged like you’re talking about. Can you, can you video, I mean I know you’re not a lawyer so we’re not making a legal recommendation here, but just from your, you know, your experience. Is that something that would be smart? Cause I would think I would want to do that now at this point, given what you just said, if I was gonna hire someone,
Jeff Altman (00:33:39):
so I’ll start off with the hardest three questions for an English to say on any TV show, interview or podcast. I don’t know. Okay. Really do really do consult an attorney before you consider doing that because you don’t want to just arbitrarily have security in there unless you know your people know about this in advance.
Ken Newhouse (00:33:58):
Yeah. Yeah. And it’s state by state difference. Okay. So I just wanted to throw that out. Go ahead. Run with what you’re doing. I apologize for that.
Jeff Altman (00:34:02):
No, please. So next question to ask is why do you do what you do? How did you get into doing this kind of work? Now what you’re looking for is some spark of life from them. Something where it doesn’t sound like they’re doing this for the money. It’s not nothing wrong about them doing for the money.
Ken Newhouse (00:34:19):
Yeah, we’re in business to make a profit on purpose. Absolutely.
Jeff Altman (00:34:21):
Exactly right. But there’s something about them that there’s an excitement that shows up. There could be a twinkle in the eye, a smile on their face of laugh. It’s something human about them that’s revealed to you in the answer or not. They were not. Doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re disqualified, but it’s another indicator about the person and their character. Now recognize some personality types are relatively flat. Introverts can be that way. And thus, do you want an introvert at the front desk? Do you want an introvert doing business development work? That’s part of the job. That’s your decision to make. But don’t be surprised if that introvert who’s at the front desk has trouble looking at the client that had the patient in the eye when they walk into your office.
Ken Newhouse (00:35:04):
Yeah, that’s not good. That’s definitely not good.
Jeff Altman (00:35:07):
I don’t know that that’s the case for everyone, but it’s, it’s another data point for you
Ken Newhouse (00:35:11):
guys just to prove Jeff’s authenticity. Let’s go back to the very initial stage of the interview. And if you listen to him, and you can even watch it, some video when I throw it up on YouTube, but one of the first questions I asked is, I ask everybody, how’d you get started doing what you’re doing? Essentially give me your backstory and with great enthusiasm and you can hear it in his voice and you can see it in the video. Like his eyes light up, his pupils dilate. He’s got a big grin on his face. He becomes much more animated because he’s incredibly passionate about what he does. And so he’s, I mean, he’s what he’s, he’s practicing what he preaches. So Jeff, go ahead. I just wanted to throw that cause some people aren’t gonna see the video, but they can hear it in your voice. The excitement and the fact that this is an authentic guy.
Jeff Altman (00:35:45):
Bingo. And that’s what you’re looking for is congruent between the package and the voice. And the body doesn’t lie when, when you see energy out of a person as they talk about something that’s a signal for you that you’ve hit on something that has meaning for them. And thus, I’ll use the example of my son. You know, he really wants to do a good job. It comes through with a meticulous care for what he does. And as he talks about things, he’s determined he’s a bulldog. It’ll show up in the course of the interview and if that’s what you’re looking for. No, I’m not trying to get my son a job.
Ken Newhouse (00:36:18):
He’s, he’s out. He’s, he’s like his mother right now. Anything like his dad, not super confident or gregarious or outgoing, he’s must be like his mother.
Jeff Altman (00:36:24):
He’s like himself hybrid between the two of us, which is interesting. And then again from getting them off the script or did you want to be when you were growing up? It’s a fun question because again, they’re not going to fake it with you. Like they’re going to wonder why. Why is she asking me this? Because it’s really about connecting with the person right now. What does it want to be when you grow up? It’ll teach you about the dreams that they had a chance to talk about their passion. So you know in the followup question to that I encourage, and again there’s lots of data questions you’ll be able to ask people about their skills and about their knowledge. I don’t want to cover or attempt to cover tonight. I’m just dealing with a couple of basic human questions. The follow up question to that is, and by the way, I want to be a pitcher with the attics.
Jeff Altman (00:37:11):
Okay, so I can both through how are we go to the doctor’s office at times? Cause I needed to check checkup and he would ask me how I, we throw a curve ball and I would show him how to do this. And then it becomes, so how did you get from there to here? What’s your path that brought you to this? No judgment in the answer. I want to be clear about this. You’re not judging them for the answer. Sometimes there are economic things in their lives that made them make certain life decisions. You know, using myself as an example, there was a point where I wanted to be a psychotherapist. I went to graduate school, I met my wife there. I put my, my career aspirations to change on hold and waited 1517 years before returning to them.
Ken Newhouse (00:37:54):
She put the whammy on them guys, she used some of that psychotherapy stuff on them and stole them away. And that’s how they got married. And now he’s back on track. Happily married, happily married. So wait, wait, wait. Let me just real quick, this comes to mind. So your wife and you went to psychotherapy school, the graduate school together. So I could just imagine if you guys were having, and I’m just having a little lighthearted fun here, just imagining a disagreement in your house. Do you guys throw in different like subliminal mind bending techniques, mind control techniques on one another? Oh, you’re right. No, you’re right. No, you’re right. I just, I could just can’t even imagine how that would go.
Jeff Altman (00:38:21):
Um, and it works really well. And back to the question, how did you get from there to here? Allows you to get some insight as to who they really are. Because if you let them stay on the script because you asked the same scripted questions that everyone else stops, I can assure you they can watch one of my videos on YouTube and answer all your BS questions perfectly, but they can’t fake who they are with these questions. And you’re trying to get to the character of the person, not just simply, have you done this, have you done that? Have you done this? Have you done that? What do you think about,
Ken Newhouse (00:39:01):
can I just make an observation that I think those to your point, and then I want you to follow up and run with it. Number one, because the economy is so good and because there aren’t a whole lot of people like you. I mean you’re in a very small group of individuals that, I mean you’re known throughout the world. Jeff, you’re one of the world’s leading experts on helping people from the employee side. So number one, following the interview process and doing this, I mean, here’s the other point I want to throw in. Most of the people I think who probably apply for your, your openings are going to be qualified or have the ability to learn the technical aspect of the job. And so going at the heart of the psych, the psychology, the emotional aspect, the a, the character of the individual I think is probably the most important thing you can do.
Ken Newhouse (00:39:36):
And so number one, you want to do this. If I understand you Jeff correctly from number one, the point that Hey listen, jobs are available all over the place to the highly, the most highly qualified people. So if you really want the best employees, you better get your interview process lined out like Jeff’s show and your number two. You want to get it lined out like Jeff is showing you because you want to make sure you get the right hire the first time so you can run in, your business, can grow and not have to deal with losing all the time, effort and money and going back through the rehiring process again and again and again. Does that, am I following you here?
Jeff Altman (00:40:03):
Right? So the hiring process is what we’ve been dealing with, but then there’s the employee retention part of this as well because you can talk about this great office with everyone has everyone’s back then not being true. So how do you keep people engaged? And part of it is your relationship with them because you are the axis upon which the office rots. And thus I come back to that thing and I mentioned earlier a lunatic. For a boss. If you are a crazy maker, you drive people away. And folks, you all have your crazy moments. But I’m talking about crazy makers because there are those folks out there who just make people nuts. They say one thing means something else and they wonder why he came mind wary and it happens all the time. So recognize your people need some positive reinforcement. Just simply criticism.
Jeff Altman (00:40:51):
And I always encourage people, I did this with my son, uh, as as he sat down with the person he’s working for now it’s the two question review. What am I doing well, because that’s always the hardest question for people to answer. Cause we all know how to criticize someone. They don’t do this, they don’t do that. Those come to the top of our mind, but it’s the, what are you doing well to start off any review, people got to hear the good stuff. They can’t just hear criticism from you because eventually they feel like the being turned into plow horses beaten into submission. And that personality that made you want to hire them eventually evaporates because you’ve turned them into machines. No one wants to feel like a machine and that’s what we do in offices these days and that’s how disengagement occurs more than anything.
Jeff Altman (00:41:38):
You know, we talk about creating systems in offices and they help with efficiency, but where they affect the humanity of the person who’s going to be, for example, the front desk or managing the office in general and that person’s trying to turn everyone into machines so that it’s easier for them but not necessarily easier for the people who you have out there serving your patients. Suddenly you got a problem. There has to be a blend between the two and for you who own practices, you’ve got to figure out where that line is and if the office manager struggles with it, just love them up to doing great in this. We don’t want to turn them over. We want to love them up first. And if you’re not familiar with the phrase, you want to be falling all over them. He want to be touching them, doing things right first and always talking about the things that they’re doing well and they say, but there’s one little thing over here.
Jeff Altman (00:42:24):
If you could just switch on the gears on this one. No, can’t do that. How come teach me? What’s the problem with that? Oh, could you come up with another workaround to her? Because what we’re from having problems with is all the hygienists will pistol off and we cannot risk losing them. I know it’s a little harder for you, but what other solution can you come up with? Those shit is part of your job and respect the people you have working for you so that they feel that they matter because there’s nothing like the day you get married to someone. For those of you who are married, your number that a wonderful day. He got married, everything is wonderful and then we start taking the other person for granted and that’s what happens with hiring. We start taking people for granted and thinking that if we tell them to do something, we’re immediately right and you’re immediately wrong.
Jeff Altman (00:43:11):
Sometimes we have to end it and we make mistakes and own up to it like I did earlier when I said I don’t know. Those are the three hardest words for guest to say, who’s being presented as an expert. Will folks, you know how to do your practice extremely well. You may be great with someone in the chair and you may not be as good at managing or leading, which is different than managing by the way, but you may not be as good at that and think by proclamation from this day forward, we shall do it this way. You may think that’s the way to run their business into the ground. This is the way it will happen because you’re not going to engage people with your thought process. You’re just going to tell people what you want to do and if you do that all the time, they’re going to wait for you to do it.
Ken Newhouse (00:43:55):
No, Jeff, you’re 100% right. I haven’t seen it often, but I have instances where the entire staff, and again we have 40% of the audience are people who own dental practices that listen to this show. But we also have people who are small business owners and chiropractors and consultants. But I have had a couple of instances that really do come to mind where the whole staff, you know, every office I go into, there’s usually one person who is like this person, you know, the boss isn’t treating me fairly or this or that. Unreasonable expectations never appreciates my work. But there’ve been a couple of times where the whole entire staff was in unison about like you just said here, you here, you, you know that this is the way, this is the law, you know, this is my sandbox and you’re gonna do it my way. Or it’s the high we kind attitude and business owner was really screwing up his or her profitability by being more militant and not, you know, being empathetic and engaging and working with the team. And so I do think this is a really good point that you bring up. You can’t be like that with your team. You’ve got to actually care about your team and work together for a common goal and be able to lead people and bring them along. I think that’s a great point.
Jeff Altman (00:44:50):
And with that, you know, you can say it as simply as I’m thinking of doing this. I know it’s going to cause you some hardship, but this is why can you come up with a better solution? I’m struggling to find something other than this cause this is a problem I’m having. That’s good. That’s good. I’ve got a guy that I coach, he’s a sales manager with a medical device firm in South Carolina and you know in their office, you know, time and again he’s put in the position of having to make decisions about his team and it’s, you know, office, cause it’s a sales organization. It’s a better commission structure. I’m trying to essentially in one particular way I know it’s going to have an adverse impact on your sales of this particular product, but this is now a commodity. Our margins are much lower. I can’t pay you what I wants that I want you to selling more of this.
Jeff Altman (00:45:38):
So I’m, I’m prepared to pay you more for this and I gotta pay you less for this cause I’m not seeing the result I need. Can you come up with a different way? That’s good. Yeah. It engages them in the process and they can’t get as pissed off at you as angry at you because you’ve explained the problem to them and why do you need to do with this one? In this case, our margins have gotten squeezed so we’ve got to sell bigger margin stuff. It’s a longer sales cycle. We understand that and we’ll pay a point in for, but it could come up with a different solution for me becomes a great way in your practice to look at some of those tough decisions you have to make in order to ensure that you don’t get the revolutions starting in your office where people start grumbling for one another. It affects employee morale and thus patient interaction or client the direction with your firm because they can just pick up the vibe in the office, isn’t what it once was.
Ken Newhouse (00:46:30):
Yeah, and I’ll say this, that the most successful clients that I have aren’t like that. There are clients that I’ve had in the past that are kind of, uh, they want to micromanage every single action every single person takes and they may attain a certain level of success and then they hit a ceiling and they never, ever, ever get through that. You want to hire people who can do jobs better than you can do the different tasks in the office better than you can, who you can trust and just let them go. And obviously, you know, I again learned this from middle Dan years ago. What you don’t inspect, people will not respect. So you have to inspect and measure and monitor their work, but not with a magnifying glass. You’ve got to trust them enough, hire the right people, train them, equip them, prepare them, and then challenge them and let them go. Do the work for you and let them succeed. Help them succeed. This is a great point.
Jeff Altman (00:47:11):
If you’re in the weeds and you’re in the [inaudible], it’s hard to get the bigger picture perspective that comes from being an Eagle soaring in the clouds. The Eagle can see everything cause they’re just looking at things from a higher level perspective. If you’re in the weeds, it’s like being an aunt and you didn’t go into starting your business to be an aunt. Yes, you watch your pennies because pennies become Nichols. Nichols become quarters and then dollars on and on and on, but you can’t be there on everything. You want to have people around you who can do that for you and tell you about what they’re doing so that this way you can have that, the perspective that you need to have to grow your business and to lead your business and not just simply manage our business.
Ken Newhouse (00:47:58):
Jeff, you got time for two questions. What about the interview process as far as, is there a recommended number of of times you should interview someone? So as an example, one of the things I used to do is I used to do an initial group interview. So I would tell everybody, this is the time you need to be here for your interview. I would have anywhere from five to 10 to 15 even 20 people showing up. And they had no idea it was a group interview. And what I would have them do is stand up in front of my office for three minutes and say and tell everybody in the group. And some people, like once they realized what I was doing, they would leave. That’s fine. But I would have them stand at the front of the office and tell every one of the other candidates, and this was job interview number one, why you’re the most qualified person to be there for the job and why you were better than everybody else there.
Ken Newhouse (00:48:36):
And I did that because I wanted to see if they could handle pressure and I wanted to see how they were speaking under, you know, handling and speaking in public and things like that. Because I get a lot of, uh, I did a lot of seminars to get new patients, a lot of health classes and things like that. And, but I did multiple interviews and I funnel them through in the last part of the interview process. And I don’t even know if this is legal to do anymore. I would have my top two or three candidates. I would say, listen, I’m going to have you come work a day. I’m not going to pay you for the day. You can decide if you like the job, if not, and we’re going to get a feel for each other, see what goes on in the trenches.
Ken Newhouse (00:49:03):
And then I’ll make my decision. I’m either gonna hire one or two of you or none of you will hire one or two of you and maybe none. So how many people in the process I’m ever there a set number of steps. Is there a process to that? And obviously we can’t get into it for lack of time, which again is another reason to go to the big game, the big game. Hunter. Dot. S um, and check out just video. Jeff, you got thousands of videos. It’s insane. But um, and that’s not just for employers, that’s for employees as well. I mean you put me to shame, but having said that, is there like an average number of, you don’t wanna hire the first after the first interview? I’m sure.
Jeff Altman (00:49:31):
Unless, unless this person is terrific, I check their references if I’m doing it on the basis of one interview because people can always call you on one. So you want to see what others say about them. And if it’s their first employer, we have no one to check. So the minimum, you have to bring it back a second time. My favorite thing with people who are going to be in public roles or selling something, I want to put them on the spot. I wouldn’t necessarily do group interviews, but there’s nothing wrong with the group itself. What I’ve done with different organizations is in their interview process, the hiring manager will say, sell your product to me. Let me a five minute presentation on the product. Yup. So it’s something that they already know. And if they fumble around with that, this is a sensibly what they’re currently selling, what’s the message in that? Not good. It’s as simple as that. Not good. So there’s no rule. But if the person is good, recognize someone else’s going to see that they’re good too. And then you were in a competitive situation and you want to always cut that off where you can’t.
Ken Newhouse (00:50:27):
Yeah, I would say, I mean, I don’t know for sure because again, I’m not in the business of hiring people and I’m not in the business of being an employee, but this is an employee market from what I understand. Because there, uh, there’s a lot, there’s a lot of openings for jobs and are being filled. So my second question, and this is going to be, I’m going to have some, I want to be true to the people that we did the first interview with. And it’s this, what would you, what are your thoughts when you talk to an employer and you’re gonna help them and you’re coaching them along to make their interview process better so they can hire the right person? What would your suggestion or your advice be to them if someone who had been a solo preneur or doing their own business or whatever, for whatever reason was leaving that wanted to leave the self-employment world, the do it myself world and go back into being an employee. What would you recommend to your client about hiring someone who’s coming from, from that, from being their own boss to wanting to go back into the workforce? What would you counsel your person to say or handle that?
Jeff Altman (00:51:16):
The question I would counsel them to ask is, I didn’t have to deal with a degree of theater to her. Why do you want to do that? She can get to the truth and the truth is, you know, I wasn’t doing the kind of numbers I thought I want, so I’ve decided I can’t, I don’t want to do this anymore. I’ve got a wife, husband or partner who’s lighting up in bed at night and is worried about, you know, can we afford the apartment? Can we afford her house? Our kids going to fill in the blank. This is an honest answer, right? You want to hear that kind of honesty from someone and if they can do it directly with you, without defensiveness, with the sound of sincerity in their voice, you’ve got a human being there who’ll be great and with, with patients. And that’s what I think in terms of what’s the message in terms of emotional intelligence that this person can convey in their answer so that you can trust them and not have to worry that they’re just going to ride this out for six months before doing it all over again.
Ken Newhouse (00:52:10):
Sorry. I actually, Jeff, when Jeff and I did our first interview, like a week ago, I was starting to get a cold and I was hacking and coughing and so I have the little mute button on my mic, but, uh, I just pushed them to me, but I’m at the tail end of my cold now. But anyway. Yeah, that’s one of the things that I’ve heard in the past people say to me is, you know, when I, uh, people who had emailed me about, uh, wanting to know how to reenter the workforce and one of their common objections they heard from or concerns, I think it’s better from potential employers when they went for the interview is, Hey, listen, you’ve been an entrepreneur for two years or five years. What’s to keep you six months down the road from deciding, Hey listen, I’m going to go back into that and you leave us high and dry. That’s a common question that they, that they were to get. So I think you bring up a good point
Jeff Altman (00:52:45):
and I won’t extra pace through it because of the language you used. I’ve been a bad entrepreneur for the last two years and I’m frankly not doing all that well. So how can I have a friend who’s a chiropractor locally, had his own practice and decided, you know, he’s 70 now and he’s still working on people. Maybe he should be, he’s better off working through someone’s else’s office and that’s what he’s done. And he’s thrilled. It’s so much easier. And your folks have what it’s like knowing a business. It owns you too.
Ken Newhouse (00:53:13):
Well, the mistake a lot of people make Jeff, is that when they go into business for themselves, they, what they’re trying to do is create a job for themselves. But see, when you own your business, as everybody knows, you’re not just doing the job of let’s say you’re salesman first, you know, sales to be more politically correct. Uh, you’re no longer just a sales professional. Now you’re a professional accountant, you’re a manager, you’re whatever. You’re the cleaning person, you’re all those things. You’re in charge of, you know, buying supplies and, um, customer relationship management and all of those things that go into owning a business. And so some people don’t realize that and you know, they just can’t be with it. So to be fair with that, I think that’s a mistake. I think a lot of people make. So they might be really good at one particular thing.
Ken Newhouse (00:53:51):
Like, they might be great at sales, but they just couldn’t handle the accounting part of it or they just didn’t like the fact that, you know, whatever the other issues are or the responsibilities, not issues that come along with being a business owner, they just want to deal with it. So anyway, so here’s my last question. What’s the one question today? And you already knew the gig on this cause I pulled that in the last time. Most people are shocked by, but what’s the one question today, Jeff, that I didn’t ask but I should have asked?
Jeff Altman (00:54:12):
Oh, what a great question that is. Oh, let me think. Oh no one. I think the basic thing is the questions they ask is why aren’t people better at interviewing? Why aren’t they better at hiring? And as I sent the job hunters, the skills needed to find a job are different than those needed to do a job. When you went to school for the training to start your practice or starts with business, no one talked with you about what it’s like to hire employees. You learned how to do the job. It’s like I did coach training at one point. They taught you how to coach. They didn’t tell, teach the business of coaching. And it’s a completely different skillset. This is a deficiency most owners learn from trial and error. And I must tell you there’s a lot more error and a lot of trials that occur in this process.
Jeff Altman (00:54:59):
And where someone like me is helpful is I help shortcut this process so that you don’t make as many mistakes so that you can learn without the mis-hires. They’re approved so costly and so agonizing when you have to let someone go. So the question would be, why am I not better at this? No one taught you. And the fun part of follow up to that is, and you weren’t bright enough to figure that part out. You thought because you could do the job, you could hire people. Well, there’s already proof that you’re struggling with that.
Ken Newhouse (00:55:28):
You know, Jeff and my study of successful people, and that’s something I’ve, I, you know, I guess that’s the one. If you know people throw around the term super power. My super power, one of the two that I have is being smart enough to know that I don’t know things smart enough to realize that I can get and become much more successful, much, much faster for a lot less money and a lot less time, effort and struggle by paying someone who’s already in the place that I want to be versus learning the hard way like most people want to do, which isn’t just in Sandy and so I cannot stress enough. I cannot give you a stronger recommendation whether you’re an employee looking to be able to do a better interview or whether you’re an employer, a business owner, and you’re looking to hire people but do it right the first time so you can avoid all the headaches, the lost time, the lost productivity. Give Jeff a look. Jeff, you said you’ve got a ton of stuff on your website. Tell us your website, once again, I’ll put it in the show notes, but where can people go? I know you’ve got a YouTube channel as well. Tell us about that.
Jeff Altman (00:56:18):
The big game Hunter dodgy us is my website. If you go to the blog, I’ve got thousands of posts that you’ve been watch, listen to or read, they’ll help you with hiring, helps with job searches as well with managing and leading. You can also, if you want to just watch video my YouTube channel, you can get to a job search tv.com I got playlist and the playlist she’d be looking for his no BS hiring advice and that woman will just be focused on hiring more effectively and you may see no BS management advice for managing situations and you might find a couple of things in career wrangles through jobs on TV.
Ken Newhouse (00:56:54):
Okay. Well Jeff, I certainly appreciate your time and I know the members that get clients donation are gonna appreciate it as well. And I’m going to be putting this show up, um, in the queue faster than I normally do just because of, I’ve got a couple other people lined up, but I want to put you as the leader on this because I think you’re probably the leading authority on this particular topic. Out of all the, all the expert guests that I have all, I don’t think I know. You’re absolutely, and again, thanks for doing this. This was really last minute for you. And so, uh, I appreciate you making the time, but I think this is the appropriate interview to have the show to have to lead off the new series we’re going to do. And um, so with that let’s go ahead and call it rap.
Jeff Altman (00:57:25):
Fabulous. Thanks for making time to have me on and hope to hear from some of you and help you in your practice and your business.
Ken Newhouse (00:57:31):
All right, so I’m gonna cut that part off. And then just real quick couple things. Um,
Jeff Altman (00:57:34):
I owe you a bio 40, you’ll have it by the weekend.
Ken Newhouse (00:57:36):
Okay. And then, um, what about, can you send me links and then I had a question about the, the TV thing with going to your URL that goes to the, the, the YouTube channel. Do you just, do you just, did you just buy that URL? Cause I have gotten, get, get clients now about TD. Um, somebody wrote a book CJ and actually wrote it. She has the website so I’m sure she gets tons of business off my podcast cause that’s the name of her book but I her website, her URL and that’s why I mentioned the name of my website [inaudible] dot com at the beginning of every show. But so you just forward, you just do like a redirect from that URL right to the YouTube channel. Exactly right. Perfect. Okay. And then um, something else that I noticed on your website and maybe I didn’t see it but with testimonials and this is an area of my expertise, I just want to give it to you because you’ve been so generous in helping me.
Ken Newhouse (00:58:14):
Our video testimonial system, the training video itself is almost finished. Once that’s done I’m going to send you the URL. Please don’t share it with anyone else cause I’m selling this, selling this product. But having video testimonials, I think we’ll just ice the cake for you cause you do have testimonials on there. But with the internet now written testimonials or believed, like not believed at all for the most part, video is where it’s at. But you already know that. But this is a, the system shows you the best, easiest, fastest way to get people to give you feedback. And you live the language patterns and some of the stuff you’ll love it, you’ll probably already know, but it’s worked really, really well and I’m really proud of being able to put together, I want to give that to you just cause you help out. Um, but those were my two questions. I think your show is going to go live on Friday morning. This one I’m going to shoot for it. I’m going to press the people. Yeah. Because I have a Dr. McNeil with build my team. His show was queued up to start Monday. But you know, I’m looking at this in retrospect, retrospect, I gotta have you first. I got to have you first because of just, I just see you as the more prominent expert. I like to lead with the best guy first or gal is at work.
Jeff Altman (00:59:07):
Thank you. I appreciate the recognition and acknowledgement. Yeah, no, I know. I did great work.
Ken Newhouse (00:59:12):
And your machine with content, man. I mean, I just, uh, it’s, it’s your machine, so that’s awesome. Anyway,
Jeff Altman (00:59:19):
cause no one knows how to choose a coach so they can find out more about me through the content and my sharing the content. Yup. And I’ll try and get the bio to you by tomorrow morning
Ken Newhouse (00:59:28):
or if you’ve got a link like where you have a bio on a webpage. I’m probably on my website. Yeah. Okay. I’ll use that. I’ll just, I’ll just have them pull that for me and then we’ll just don’t worry about sending that and then, but if you do have a particular unique URL other than the ones you mentioned, send me that or just actually shoot me an email cause otherwise I’ll forget it. Shoot me an email of the URL you want people to go to. That’s the one that I put in the show notes or multiple email are a URL links. I’ll throw those in. But I’m shooting for Friday, Friday morning to have this go live
Jeff Altman (00:59:51):
super. And I’m sure you’ll send me the move of blah blah blah.
Ken Newhouse (00:59:56):
I’m making your, I’m gonna make you a video testimonial on myself that you can use. And then I’ll send you the link once the, once the video testimonial training system is done, I’ll send you a link for that so that you can, that you can watch that.
Jeff Altman (01:00:09):
One of the nice gifts you gave me was the idea of the recommendation from my podcast, and I started asking people for those recommendations too. I hadn’t done that up until our conversation last time, and I’ve gotten a couple of recommendations on freedom. I’m now over 100 for total recommendations, and you know, it’s hard to differentiate yourself as a coach. People don’t know how to do it, but testimonials work.
Ken Newhouse (01:00:31):
Absolutely right, Jeff, I appreciate your time. I’ll let you know. I’ll, I’ll get you this stuff ASAP. Thank you. Sure. Be great. Thank you, Jeff. I appreciate it. Bye. Bye. Bye.